Does God have separate programs for Israel and the Church?

Answer: No.

All who walk by Faith in OT are the called out ones, the remnant, the elect not hardened, who join with those who walk by Faith in the NT to ALL form the Church and to ALL form Israel.

Anyone who adhere to this rule are the Israel of God: "Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything;what counts is the new creation. 16 Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule—to the Israel of God." [Gal 6: 15]

In case anyone does not believe please read "An Open Letter to Evangelicals and Other Interested Parties: The People of God, the Land of Israel, and the Impartiality of the Gospel"

As the website states, here you will find "A letter signed by over 100 evangelical Presbyterians theologians [that] challenges evangelical Christians on the issue of Israel. They assert that:

“At the heart of the political commitments in question are two fatally flawed propositions. First, some are teaching that God’s alleged favor toward Israel today is based upon ethnic descent rather than upon the grace of Christ alone, as proclaimed in the Gospel. Second, others are teaching that the Bible’s promises concerning the land are fulfilled in a special political region or ‘Holy Land,’ perpetually set apart by God for one ethnic group alone. As a result of these false claims, large segments of the evangelical community, our fellow citizens, and our government are being misled with regard to the Bible’s teachings regarding the people of God, the land of Israel, and the impartiality of the Gospel.

What’s remarkable about this letter is that it was written in 2002 while the majority of evangelical Christians were unaware of what is now known as Christian Zionism.”

-----------------------------------------

So does God have separate programs for Israel and the Church as some have indicated, where we are not in the age of Grace, the Church age, and the Christ will reinstitute the law, Israel will rebuild the temple and return to law, Christ will then deal with Israel and save them accordingly.

This is not Biblical correct for the following reasons:

-----------------------------------------

1. This is like asking does God have two Sons, and different programs for those two Sons.

Well the Bible did seem to indicated God has two sons:

Israel was called God's firstborn son. (Ex 4:22)
Of Jesus it was said "This is My Beloved Son" (Matt 3:17)

Other Shadows, types and anti-types:

Israel was God's Vine (Ps. 80:8). But Jesus is the true Vine (John 15:1).
Israel was the seed of Abraham, But that seed (singular, not plural) was identified as Jesus.

So if you want to accuse anyone of replacing Israel, don't accuse the church, accuse Jesus Christ.

Conclusion: Israel was a shadow of Jesus. Jesus is Israel. Jesus "replaced" Israel. Rather The New Israel is and starts with Christ.

-----------------------------------------

2. This is like asking if David, Abraham, Isaac are Israel but not the church or if they are part of the church and not Israel.

So does God have a separate program for David, Jacob, Moses, Noah? No.

Heb 11- They are called heroes of faith for a reason.
Heb 12:22 "But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem.

You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, 23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God..."

Conclusion: The heroes of faith are the real Israel. The heroes of faith are also the church. Why? The true Israel back in the Old testament have always been those of FAITH.

-----------------------------------------

3. So (true) Israel = those who walk by faith; Church = those who walk by faith.

This is like asking "Does God have separate programs for those who walk by faith?"

Do you see how illogical this is?

"It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.”[b] 8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring. " [Rom 9:6-8]

This was Paul's point in all of Romans, Galatians and Hebrews. All those who walk by faith in the Old Testament, they are Israel, they are the seed, the remnant, they are the children of Isaac the promise. All those who walk by faith in the New Testament are also Israel. All who walk by faith are the Church.

Conclusion: There is only One program - Those who walk by Faith. (Gal 3:7-9). Cast out the bondwoman, Mt. Sinai, the natural thinking Forever.

-----------------------------------------

But What ABOUT?

1. What About The Eternal Land Promises?

I don't think many believers actually believe the scripture.

They keep asking about the "land promises" as if they were not fulfilled.

Again they are Fulfilled, else we don't believe scripture. And if we don't believe scripture that means we are unbelievers.

Want proof?

Gal 15:18 "On that day the Lord made a covenant with Abram and said, “To your descendants I give this land, from the Wadi[a] of Egypt to the great river, the Euphrates—"

So the Land promised was the Nile to the Euphrates.

So did it occur in Israel's history?

"So the LORD gave Israel all the land he had sworn to give the ancestors, and they took possession of it and settled there. The LORD gave them rest on every side, just as he had sworn to their ancestors. Not one of their enemies withstood them; the LORD gave all their enemies into their hands. Not one of all the LORD's good promises to Israel failed; every one was fulfilled " (Joshua 21:43-45).

Wait. The Bible did not say that. It says, the land promises were NOT fulfilled right? Sigh.

There is more.

"And Solomon ruled over all the kingdoms from the Euphrates River to the land of the Philistines, as far as the border of Egypt. These countries brought tribute and were Solomon's subjects all his life: (1 Kings 4:21).

Let's Play a little Jeopardy.

Answer: The Land Promises Fulfilled, else we don't believe scripture

Question: Do you believe this or not?

2. What About the Moses Covenant? A New temple?

Answer: Fulfilled by Christ. Ended with Jerusalem destroyed in AD 70. God took away the Kingdom and Gave it to a new people to Bring forth fruit... Repeat after me. NO MORE OLD TESTAMENT. NO MORE SHEMITAHS. NO MORE LAND LAWS. NO MORE FEASTS. ONLY CHRIST who fulfilled all things.

Any future building of any Temple is Blasphemous.

3. Was Israel replaced?

Answer: No. Israel was ALWAYS the believing remnant in the Old Testament and those who believed.

Those who follow this rule is the Israel of God.
"Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is the new creation. Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule—to the Israel of God." [Gal 6:15-16]

4. What About All Israel Saved?

Paul never said all natural Israel would be saved.

Paul said "IN THIS WAY" Israel would be saved:
"and in this way[e] all Israel will be saved. As it is written:
“The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
And this is[f] my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.” [Rom 11:26-27]

In what way?

This was how all Israel was saved. In AD 70, the tares were burned (1.3 million unbelieving Jews died and bodies burned in fire), the wheat were saved (believing Jews fled to Pella).

A remnant was saved, once again just like Babylon. Then the believing Gentiles go drafted in and Thus Israel was saved. (Believing Jew + Believing Gentile = Israel)

All Land laws fulfilled. That is what scripture said. Christ is our rest.

By having the elect who are not hardened and those who do not persist in unbelief with the full number of Gentiles who believe grafted in, all under the NEW COVENANT, under the Deliverer who takes away sins In this way all of Israel (the true Israel ) is saved.

And if God choses to have all the hardened believe, then this is how they are saved. For after all isn't it by Faith are we ALL Saved?

5. What About the Abraham Covenant?

God’s unchanging promise to bless the world through the seed of Abraham (Genesis 12:3) was fulfilled in the gospel (Galatians 3:6-9)

Here is what Peter said:
"It is you who are the sons of the prophets and of the covenant which God made with your fathers, saying to Abraham, ‘AND IN YOUR SEED ALL THE FAMILIES OF THE EARTH SHALL BE BLESSED.’ 26“For you first, God raised up His Servant and sent Him TO BLESS YOU BY TURNING EVERY ONE OF YOU FROM YOUR WICKED WAYS.”"

The Blessing was to turn every one of you from your wicked ways. ACCOMPLISHED IN CHRIST.

6. But What About The Modern Nation of Israel? 1948? Surely!

Answer: So what...What about Egypt? What about Iran?

Isa 19:23-25 "In that day there will be a highway from Egypt to Assyria. The Assyrians will go to Egypt and the Egyptians to Assyria. The Egyptians and Assyrians will worship together.

24 In that day Israel will be the third, along with Egypt and Assyria, a blessing on the earth. TheLord Almighty will bless them, saying, “Blessed be Egypt my people, Assyria my handiwork, and Israel my inheritance.” "

This is like asking Does God have separate separate programs because we cannot Identify who the true Israel is..

We know who the True Israel is -- Christ. Why? Because He is Judah and Ephraim

Gen 48:20: Jacob placed his hand on Ephraim and stated that the name of Israel was his inheritance. This is why when the Kingdom was split only those 10 tribes who went Ephraim could legally be called Israel, that is the House of Israel. The tribes of Judah, Benjamin and Levi, could only be called the House of Judah or the Jews.
If Ephraim is not reunited, no one naturally can be called Israel. That is why we refer to them as the lost sheep of Israel. Joseph had the name Israel, He had the birthright. Judah had the Sceptre.

[1 Chron 5:1-2] "The sons of Reuben the firstborn of Israel (he was the firstborn, but when he defiled his father’s marriage bed, his rights as firstborn were given to the sons of Joseph, son of Israel; so he could not be listed in the genealogical record in accordance with his birthright,

2 and though Judah was the strongest of his brothers and a ruler came from him, the rights of the firstborn belonged to Joseph)"

So those people out there in the Middle East cannot Biblically nor legally call themselves Israel if they cannot find Ephraim. They are usurpers.

"The usurpers succeeded in gaining control of Joseph’s birthright and the birthright name Israel in 1948. In calling themselves Israel, the Zionist “Jews” have claimed to replace Joseph-Israel as the birthright holder. So they first replaced the King of Judah, and then replaced the King of Israel, both times by violence and force. The first time, they had to violently kill the King of Judah. The second time in the 1940’s they had to use terrorist tactics to drive out the British. Thus have they established their own brand of replacement theology.

The Jews in 1948 were not content to name their country Judah, or Judea, knowing that they needed to convince the Christians that they were fulfilling the prophecies of the regathering of the lost tribes of the house of Israel. So they named their nation “Israel,” usurping the name given to the sons of Joseph in

Gen. 38:48

16. The Zionist state of “Israel” has unlawfully usurped the place of Joseph and has replaced true Israel in the minds of men. They have convinced much of the Church that they are the inheritors of the birthright given to Joseph and his children. They have convinced many Christians that the Old Jerusalem, ruled by Jews, is the beginning of the Kingdom of God upon the earth. Every time Christian Zionists call them Israel, they acknowledge the usurpers as the inheritors of the birthright of Joseph." Dr. Stephen Jones "Who is An Israelite"

So who are those people in the land over there? People just like Palestines whom Christ died for.

When Jacob performed the crossed armed prophecy over Joseph's sons, Ephraim's inheritance was the name of Israel. Hence wherever Ephraim (the fruitful one) went, as head tribe, the name of Israel went. that is why the 10 Tribes in the north were called the House of Israel, while the 2 tribes - Judah, Benjamin- with Levi in the south was called the House of Judah. Ephraim never returned in 1948. They are lost via the Assyrian deportation. From a natural point of view, 1948 usurped the name Israel. Should be called Judah.

Yet Christ came as David from Judah to be King. He comes also as Joseph with robe dipped in blood, to gather His Kingdom (the lost ones - Ephraim) from all the earth. This is Israel.

When Christ died, ALL MEN DIED. We love Israel, but we love Palestine also. Like God, we love the world.

Conclusion: The fact is Christ is now about inheriting all nations. The first coming was establishing his Kingship (claim from Judah). The final return is to receive the Kingdom that has been growing like leaven on the earth (claim from Joseph/ Ephraim)

God Does NOT have separate programs for Israel and Church. It has always been about Faith, and it has always been about Christ. The called out ones in the OT were called the remnant. The called out ones in the NT are the church. All called out ones from ALL ages are joined to form BOTH Israel and Church. No one has replaced anyone. The only replacement if you want to call it that is Christ has replaced them ALL.

-------------------------------------------

Good resources are:

Some more resources:

Search This Blog

Musings on the Tough Life Questions